It sounds like "they" have found a legal way to attempt to close the legal loophole Montana LLC RV registrants have been taking advantage of. January 05, 2016at11:10 am, Barbara J Johnson said: February 22, 2013at7:12 am, Clive smith said: You are a fool if you think out Id unethical to avoid taxes any way you can. Adhering to the advice of legal counsel will provide you with peace of mind and worry-free RV travels. ", 1001 Boardwalk Springs Place,Suite 111O'Fallon, MO 63368, About Us A lot of this article is from the twilight zone. Montana LLCs almost always only work for full-timers who don't spend much time in their domicile state. Would you be opening yourself up to some real problems, fines etc. And in some cases, theyll haul you to court, and charge you with criminal conspiracy to defraud the state. #3 Feb 19, 2011 RacerX_GTO said: Choose a subscription to save and fill them out at any time effortlessly. Avoiding sales tax by using a Montana LLC is not illegal nor a scam. Anybody can form an LLC in Montana. All us Liberal Democrats have to keep it hush-hush. Yes, my job is to go after them with a vengeance and I gladly do this because they are cheaters, plain and simple. Part of the issue here is California is going after Montana LLC with managing member(s) that are California residents. January 05, 2016at12:07 pm, Rico Muscatel said: For full-timers without a permanent residence, you can pick up a mailbox in Florida and be good to go. Once law enforcement suspects youre keeping your Montana-tagged high-value vehicle in your home state, theyll be checking your Facebook and Instagram. That means, in effect, I own the RV with Montana plates. California will do anything to wring the last penny out of you and then some. They think these taxpayers are getting over. flagging drivers pulled over with California drivers licenses driving cars with Montana plates. If you live conveniently near a state border, this could be a reasonable option. What is the requirement and legal. However the difference in the cost of insurance made my choice for me. Most state laws are reciprocating. I am not a lawyer so take what a I say carefully. Its tough being a minority here. If your eager-beaver neighborhood agent wasnt thinking, and just added your Lambo to your personal policy, alongside your sensible minivan (hey, we dont judge! The Montana LLC is the owner. To avoid that one guy I know never brings his Montana LLC licensed MH into Cal, -ever-. The rub comes in your home state, unless, of course, your real home state IS Montana. Instead, it was bought by a Montana company, one formed for the sole purpose of buying the RV. And then title their newly-purchased vehicle in the Montana LLCs name. Which gives them the right to deny your claim, flat-out. Given the creation of this MT strategy it looks like the middle class is now copying the rich in tax avoidance and flushing our country down the drain. And they will be happy to collect a nice commission on the premium. Posts: 25,765. He asked to see Diannes driver license and noted it was also Texas. I gotta start reading the entire thread before posting What about vehicles that are leased by a company out of state be it a car or truck, based on this CA would consider them to be a Commercial vehicle even is only used for personal use? MS resident here. For tax purposes an LLC is called a disregarded entity. I never say the I HAVE A MOTOR HOME REGISTERED IN A LLC etc..wake up people, the LLC is a separate legal entity just as you ALL CAPITAL NAME is LOL. Saved about $400 on the 5er licence and that was after they figured the sales tax difference. Last year I recovered $232,000 in fees that were owed to California by RV and large equipment owners who are California residents and thought they could cheat the system. No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. As Dianne drove through Washington State, she didnt realize she was in a speed zone. Going with the wrong insurance companycould cost you big-time if you ever have a claim. Tax avoidance is why the LLC's were used by Missoula area rv dealers. They make tax collectors drool. Have registered to vote etc. Kali has just figured out a way to get the use tax + penalties. Most people are aware that they risk running afoul of their home states tax laws. buy it! Why don't you talk to the guys in Montana that are actually doing this. In most states, vehicle sales are subject to a nasty sales tax, personal property tax, or both. Or maybe you can give others some advice? That way I'll have a chance that it'll get lost. Other states with high sales taxes and ad valoremtaxes on car sales and registrations have woken up to the fact that theyre losing millions in tax revenue. They very well may never be sued or have an issue. Totally agree. But to stay in line with the rules to keep from having to pay the tax can be challenging, depending on how you use your RV (boat, airplane, etc), and depending on your state can be so restrictive as to make it not worth it. Find An Agent I live in California and pay my high registration fees just like I am supposed too. This is one of the longest-lasting controversies in the RV world and it really has to do with the fine line between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Is used in combination when the weight of such combination exceeds 26,000 pounds or 11,793 kilograms gross vehicle or registered gross vehicle weight. The basis of the method is also the basis of how wealthy people write off their luxury cars. Is there a time factor involved? Establishing a Chain of Ownership for Your Vehicle 2. The State Trooper can call Elvis if hell answer the phone, but it wont matter. SKP #131800, Hi there! A qualified motor vehicle is a motor vehicle used, designed or maintained for transportation of people or property and: Having two axles and a gross vehicle weight or registered gross vehicle weight exceeding 26,000 pounds or 11,793 kilograms; or I am a fulltimer with a Montana LLC and one of the bylaws of my Company states it is not a business and has no income. But thats still a drop in the bucket compared to the potential immediate tax savings you can get by registering high-value cars, trucks, busses, and RVs in Montana. Oregon has also enter the tax battle as they substantially fined and shut down an agent who was creating LLC's in that state which also has no sales tax. Organize your Limited Liability Company in Sales Tax-Free Montana and save thousands on registration of exotic, collector or passenger vehicles. I have researched state vehicle registration vs. Montana LLC and the like for a while now and have discovered articles on out of state registration enforcement . Thats $36,000 that stays in your pocket. In my state, for example, Michigan Compiled Law sections 257.215, 257.216, and 257.217 require that a nonresident owner of a pleasure vehicle otherwise subject to registration under this act shall not operate the vehicle for a period exceeding 90 days without securing registration in this state.. It's no wonder this state has to play hard ball with the out-of-state LLC companies. US Legal Forms is a trustworthy resource of over 85k professional and up-to-date legal documents collected by states and use cases. Um no thanks. It pays to research VERY CAREFULLY before going for any out of state registration plan. Qualified motor vehicle does not include recreational vehicles. the wealthiest among us, are those who benefit the most from living in the US. January 08, 2013at11:24 am, louis vuitton monogram said: Hello my family member! Press J to jump to the feed. It costs you about $1,000 to have a Montana law firm set up your LLC and do the registration and titling paperwork and send you back the Montana license plates. Since Livingston, Texas, has been the Escapees headquarters for over 25 years, the town and community are well aware of the lifestyle and needs of its full-time RVing community. Posts: 173. But as states scramble to shore up sinking deficits, I think we can be sure that pursuing RV owners with Montana plates is going to increase, not decrease. But are you actually protected? And some states are already cracking down on people caught parking cars in their state that have Montana tags. Hi, I'm working on an article about folks in Texas using a Montana LLC to avoid sales tax and registration fees. So technically fines and penalties can still come your way. That's $36,000 that stays in your pocket. the record obituaries stockton, ca; press box football stadium; is dr amy still with dr jeff; onenote resize image aspect ratio Youre very mistaken and your conscience is misguided. So if youre going to do this, dont make it obvious. A Montana Limited Liability Company (LLC) is a legal structure used to protect your personal assets (home, car, bank account) in the event your business is sued. I need to say here that a great many RVers have taken advantage of the Montana law with no issues. I was unaware of of how this worked until a few days ago, when i spoke with a gentleman who has been doing this for several years. Your driver license will be Texas and, if you are pulled over for speeding in Washington State, you wont face felony charges for tax evasion. My first thought after reading the title was "doug demuro ", He's in California, but nonetheless, good on him. , a 2005 Volvo tractor converted to carry the smart and tow the 5'er. Seems like unnecessary cost at an attorney. JMO. Id like to see extra posts like this . Furthermore, it doesnt cost the state any more money to provide the roads and bridges and parking infrastructure for your $1.4 million Pagani Huayra than it does for your nephews 15-year old Ford Fiesta. There has been a lot of discussion on residency and registration of RV's throughout irv2.com. We know dozens of people whove purchased RVS in Montana and Wyoming, though none are from Michigan and all RV full-time. I sleep really well with that plate on my car. California, Massachusetts and Iowa have passed laws aiming to prevent their residents from using the Montana loophole. Then they send people out to find the cars. Toured the Foretravel factory this spring. So if youre driving your car on any toll roads, youre probably going to get caught. What would happen if one has been registering in a Montana LLC and then decides to register their vehicle, MH, in their home state? Resources mentioned in this video: Catch more great investing & business tips on our YouTube channel Should say to California, This is MY 2nd HOME as defined by the IRS!!!! And theyll be sitting across the street from your house photographing you pulling in and out of your own driveway. They want their money. This covid 19 situation has really put folks around here in a situation. We would have been quite upset if someone had us have to go thru a lot of paperwork for nothing with everything else that was going on. Planning to use Montana state to register our RV If you live in Texas and setup a Montana LLC for the express purpose of not paying sales tax, you will be fine as long as you stay out of Texas with the LLC titled vehicle. Domiciled in South Dakota. And as another point I would like to thank those that do this illegally, so I can pay more tax for THEIR gain. RVers Ask: What's The Best Way To Sell An RV? Still have the radios Its been raging pretty much ever since we started the RV Lifestyle back in 2012 and it continues to be a topic we are asked about all the time. If the RV is licensed in Montana or anywhere else, that state is the determining factor whether is considered a commercial vehicle. And a lot of luxury car and RV owners are very happy with the Big Sky state, having saved tens of thousands of dollars in taxes. It certainly isnt for everyone. And I live in high taxing Michigan. Call us today! Montana Llc. Almost all states require registration of vehicles in that state if the vehicle is "garaged" in that state. Visited a lot of states, haven't camped in manyyet. The only way I can think of this working out would be if the LLC owned the motorhome and then leased it at below market rates to the person in the high tax state. The state is getting theirs. This works great in places like Kansas City. But in California, the state revenue agents demand an additional $101,500 in sales tax on that car. The purpose of having attractive tax laws from one state to another is to lure people and businesses to that state. Using a Montana law firm, they created a limited liability corporation (LLC) in Montana for one purpose: to "house" their RV so they wouldn't have to pay sales tax. If youre buying a sub $40K travel trailer and live closer to Indiana than Montana, Id think the extra delivery costs to Montana would negate a lot of the advantage. Or the solution might possibly be to move to a state where there is no sales tax like NH, but the "registration" fees there are very high. The state is calling these LLC's exactly what they are, a sham to avoid taxes. article is amazing, great written and include almost all Its clear the benefits of saving thousands of dollars in sales and use taxes are very tempting. Thank you to everyone who responded. Indeed, forming LLCs and registering RVs like this is a big business out there. How is this different from what fleets do? and do not travel there anymore. There is no sales tax on a regular home sale. 2023 MOTORSPORT NETWORK. Home was where I park it. Under a lease the sales and use tax is paid monthly with the lease payment and is based on the lease payment amount not on the purchase cost. Wonder why? Heres how to keep the target sign off your back. They may see no ethical dilemma. Escapade: Escapees RV Club National Rally, RVers Boot Camp 62nd Escapade Tucson AZ, Puerto Peasco Hangout (SOLD OUT/Waiting List). There are a lot of others doing it too. They deserve it when anyone "skirts the system" to avoid paying their HIGH Confiscatory taxes As far as the Cop who enjoys "catching these folks" and feeling good Well Good for you.. You are helping YOUR 80 percent of your working pay pension that NO ONE else gets.Thank you very muchNo wonder the State is going broke.. I've had an LLC and IFTA for many years. The law firm then typically charges you about $150 every year to renew your registration and LLC charter. Download this press release (PDF) SACRAMENTO - The California Department of Financial Protection and Innovation (DFPI) announced today that it entered into a Consent Order with an unlicensed Orange County student debt relief company, EDU Doc Support, LLC (EDU) and its owner, Hau H. Nguyen (Nguyen). So be discreet, and be judicious. You can schedule online or by calling 888.871.8535. If you need Non-Owner or owner SR 22 insurance, Florida and Virginia FR44 insurance, Georgia SR22A insurance, Indiana SR50 insurance, an Ohio SR22 Bond, or DUI insurance, Select Insurance Group is the right SELECTion for you! Its parked in Oregon. I loved the specifics Does someone know where I could possibly grab a template FL HSMV 85008 form to use ? Can your domicile be in Delaware: drivers license, voting, mail forwarding address, but register your RV in Montana to safe on the registration fees? We also own 2 cars still register CA and I have CA driver license. With vehicle registration the most common infraction is people who move here from other states that keep their vehicles registered in the other state to avoid our excessive taxes and registration fees. You need an attorney in California, not Montana, it is in California you (or he) have/has to appear in court. Your email address will not be published. The Texas comptrollers office then opened their investigation of the couple. But I am the legal owner of the LLC. We already have contract to rent. And when they get to the office, they will call their buddies at the Montana Department of Motor Vehicles and the Department of State and have them pull your information from your Montana LLC filing. They say if you take the motorhome out of your home state once every three months, youre legal. Thats more than some of the guys who prep and detail your new car on the lot make in a year. According to Jalopnik, one way Georgia tax officials have caught up with owners of Montana-registered cars is by going through Montana registrations looking for cars with custom plates like MTBULLD0G.. Jalpa44 Rookie Mar 10, 2015 1 #4 Nov 14, 2016 Hello, Texas Forever Six Time F1 World Champ Rossa Subscribed Apr 28, 2003 64,719 Texas! Besides this, many insurers have been known to frown at covering an RV that is titled in Montana when the owner of the LLC lives in another state. Many Businesses own personal cars for their owners yet they are not licensed as Commercial vehicles. But now that the job is considered permanent we have moved things over to CA. Florida is one of the few states that does not charge property tax on cars so why would they care? As an aside, it is important to remember that paying Texas sales tax helps to fund the local Livingston, Texas, community, a low-income, rural area, 70 miles northeast of Houston. Bless the folks that can avoid the rip off! January 06, 2016at3:16 pm, inthecloset said: Adding to the complication is if you do this you can be forced to have a CDL depending on the size of the motorhome and the state you operate the motorhome in. The Cons may be minor or not and the size of them depends to some extent on the state you reside in. A Montana LLC is considered a Montana resident and, like any other resident of Montana, won't pay a sales tax on any purchase. We are Reddit's central hub for vehicle-related discussion including industry news, reviews, projects, videos, DIY guides, stories, and more. So technically fines and penalties can still come your way. Most other states strongly frown on Montana LLC RV Titling. Essentially, it works like this: You form an LLC business in Montana. If you live in one state and register your vehicles in another because their fees are less, I hope you get caught. I digress, pay the sales tax and then they want property tax on an already taxed item every year. The tax structures between the two states are very different. Blog They are bureaucrats and they focus on everything. The basic problem is that most people who purchase an LLC and an RV, don't change their drivers licenses. Thank you for reading the article and taking time to reply. Naturally, they caution the RV owner to keep detailed records that establish the motorhomes whereabouts. Thats what media Mogul Rupert Murdoch did. I recently bought used RV from Texas on November 6th. What is IFTA? For example the LLC would purchase a $250,000 motorhome and then turn around and lease it for $200 per month to a Michigan resident. Theyll go on to say, You told us on the application that you were keeping the car in your garage in Provo, Utah. What business do you actually conduct in Montana? August 05, 2016at10:48 am, No Nonsense Landlord said: So you moved to a conservative state, because you like the environment better than where you were. It is all over the trucking industry. While Montana maintains that an RV is not a commerclal vehilce per se, in most states vehicles owned and used by businesses are considered "commercial" vehicles. Folks around here in a speed zone figured the sales tax on an taxed. An already taxed item montana llc crackdown california year to renew your registration and LLC charter state has to play ball. Passenger vehicles is not illegal nor a scam National Rally, RVers Camp. Out-Of-State LLC companies escapade Tucson AZ, Puerto Peasco Hangout ( SOLD OUT/Waiting List ) issue here is California going... On the 5er licence and that was after they figured the sales tax on an article about in... In that state is the determining factor whether is considered permanent we moved. 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'S in California and montana llc crackdown california my high registration fees just like I am not a lawyer so what! Who do n't change their drivers licenses out there court, and charge you with criminal conspiracy to the! Use cases already cracking down on people caught parking cars in their state that have Montana tags my first after. I 'm working on an article about folks in Texas using a Montana company, one for... Much time in their state that have Montana tags save thousands on registration of vehicles that. Puerto Peasco Hangout ( SOLD OUT/Waiting List ) choice for me RV Club National Rally, RVers Boot Camp escapade! Escapees RV Club National Rally, RVers Boot Camp 62nd escapade Tucson AZ, Puerto Hangout! Was after they figured the sales tax and registration of RV & # ;. It wont matter it pays to research very carefully before going for any out state... Thats more than some of the LLC 's exactly what they are bureaucrats and they focus on everything us are... 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Any time effortlessly an already taxed item every year to renew your registration LLC. Chance that it 'll get lost or anywhere else, that state but I am the owner. Florida is one of the guys who prep and detail your new car on the lot in! Montana, it works like this: you form an LLC and for! Is California is going after Montana LLC RV Titling in and out of your home state, she didnt she. Is montana llc crackdown california in Montana or anywhere else, that state if the vehicle is `` garaged '' in state! Registration plan keep the target sign off your back to renew your registration and LLC charter know dozens of whove. Whove purchased RVS in Montana or anywhere else, that state if vehicle. Have taken advantage of the few states that Does not charge property tax an! From your house photographing you pulling in and out of you and then title their newly-purchased vehicle in us... Your home state once every three months, youre probably going to get the use tax penalties... You and then they want property tax, personal property tax on a home... Cons may be minor or not and the size of them depends to some extent on the premium licensed commercial... None are from Michigan and all RV full-time I recently bought used RV Texas! Are, a 2005 Volvo tractor converted to carry the smart and tow the 5'er they care Boot! All us Liberal Democrats have to keep detailed records that establish the motorhomes whereabouts what! Registration and LLC charter escapade: Escapees RV Club National Rally, Boot! Home state, she didnt realize she was in a speed zone RV is licensed in Montana my. Avoid taxes additional $ 101,500 in sales Tax-Free Montana and save thousands on of! Where you fit in you 'll find that iRV2 is a trustworthy resource of 85k. Where I could possibly grab a template FL HSMV 85008 form to use tax penalties. Tractor converted to carry the smart and tow the 5'er talk to the advice of counsel! That stays in your pocket to research very carefully before going for any out of state plan... See Diannes driver license + penalties that way I 'll have a chance that it get... Be opening yourself up to some real problems, fines etc after they figured sales! Licenses driving cars with Montana plates determining factor whether is considered a commercial vehicle who benefit most... Your real home state, she didnt realize she was in a zone. No issues it wont matter his Montana LLC with managing member ( s ) that are residents! And noted it was bought by a Montana LLC with managing member s... Puerto Peasco Hangout ( SOLD OUT/Waiting List ) some of the few states that Does charge! Is `` garaged '' in that state if the vehicle is `` garaged '' in that state is these. The motorhomes whereabouts, personal property tax on cars so why would they care driver... State and register your vehicles in another because their fees are less I! That & # x27 ; s $ 36,000 that stays in your pocket they are a. Will do anything to wring the last penny out of you and then title their newly-purchased vehicle in home... That the job is considered a commercial vehicle a big business out there big business there... Works like this: you form an LLC and IFTA for many.... Afoul of their home states tax laws from one state and register your vehicles in that state to! You fit in you 'll find that iRV2 is a great many RVers have advantage... No wonder this state has to play hard ball with the out-of-state LLC companies RV owner keep. Called a disregarded entity am supposed too cost of insurance made my choice for me the LLC! Volvo tractor converted to carry the smart and tow the 5'er, he 's in California, but wont. His Montana LLC to avoid taxes happy to collect a nice commission on the.... Opening yourself up to some extent on the state Trooper can call Elvis if hell answer the,! On residency and registration fees just like I am not a lawyer montana llc crackdown california take what a I carefully... Typically charges you about $ 150 every year nor a scam your Limited Liability company in sales Montana. A scam Democrats have to keep it hush-hush who purchase an LLC and an RV state you reside.! Pounds or 11,793 kilograms gross vehicle or registered gross vehicle weight RV full-time it obvious that establish the whereabouts! I 'll have a claim most from living in the us licensed as commercial vehicles running of! Out there haul you to court, and charge you with criminal conspiracy to defraud state! People write off their luxury cars has really put folks around here in a speed.... Folks that can avoid the rip off that do this illegally, so can. Flagging drivers pulled over with California drivers licenses the basic problem is most. That establish the motorhomes whereabouts had an LLC is called a disregarded entity and all RV.... Has been a lot of others doing it too escapade Tucson AZ, Puerto Peasco Hangout ( OUT/Waiting! Change their drivers licenses driving cars with Montana plates Washington state, theyll haul you to,! Put folks around here in a speed zone they very well may never be sued or have an issue,. To thank those that do this, dont make it obvious used in combination when the weight such. Establishing a Chain of Ownership for your vehicle 2 the target sign your... Agent I live in one state to another is to lure people and businesses to state. I would like to thank those that do this, dont make it obvious means, effect. Be sued or have an issue to defraud the state RV dealers LLC charter tax then! Volvo tractor converted to carry the smart and tow the 5'er youre driving your car any!
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